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Oh, I Forgot, Guns Don’t Kill April 28, 2014

Posted by rogerhollander in Gun Control/Violence.
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1-16-2012-gun-industry

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1. lwk2431 - April 28, 2014

Maybe you ought to do a cartoon of yourself. You can use this line from “Curly” in the Three Stooges:

“I try to think, but nothing happens.”

lwk

2. 3boxesofbs - April 28, 2014

Love how the gun either fires on its own or has mind control properties that forces the owner to do bad things.

rogerhollander - April 28, 2014

LWK, I know that it feels good to insult, but if YOU indeed have the capacity to THINK, then maybe a thoughtful response would carry more weight. My response as always to ad hominem argument is one we all learned as children: “sticks and stones (and guns) will break my bones …”

3. lwk2431 - April 29, 2014

“…maybe a thoughtful response would carry more weight.”

Why? Was there anything “thoughtful” in your cartoon to respond to, other than blatant, hateful prejudice? If there was, I didn’t see it.

Sometimes a thoughtful response is not called for. Sometimes what is called for, is just simple and unapologetic moral condemnation.

lwk

rogerhollander - April 29, 2014

LWK, I know that it feels good to insult, but if YOU indeed have the capacity to THINK, then maybe a thoughtful response would carry more weight. My response as always to ad hominem argument is one we all learned as children: “sticks and stones (and guns) will break my bones …”

rogerhollander - April 29, 2014

LWK, Since you didn’t see anything thoughtful in my cartoon post, I will try to explain. First of all, it was satirical, not literal. The message or “thought” is that manufacturers of weapons are interested only in monetary gains and do not care about the harm to human beings their industry profits from. This is usually referred to as war profiteering or violence profiteering. The NRA, for example, isn’t mostly financed by the small farmers who need and own shotguns to kill varmints, but rather by the humungous billion dollar arms industry. You may not agree with these thoughts, but it is disingenuous to suggest that you don’t see any thought in this satirical cartoon, that you only see hateful prejudice. Again, name calling is a lot easier and rewarding than intelligent discourse, but I invite you to refrain from more of that and instead give me your thoughts on why you disagree with mine.

4. lwk2431 - April 29, 2014

“…manufacturers of weapons are interested only in monetary gains…”

And you actually know this (how?)? I don’t think so. Certainly like any for profit company they have to make a profit to stay in business and it is a very competitive industry. And like any industry you will have people of varying moral acuteness.

But to say people like the late Bill Ruger cared about nothing but profit is transparent bullshit. I have known many people in the firearms industry over half a century and you will certainly find plenty of decent people working in it, and very concerned how their products are used.

It doesn’t show any intelligence to slander a whole class of people based on your hateful prejudices.

“The NRA [is mostly financed] by the humungous billion dollar arms industry.”

The industry that supplies firearms to American civilians is in terms of profit 1/100th the size of the drug and pharmaceutical industry in this country. The entire profits of these companies is usually less than a billion dollars. We’ re not talking about sales to the government for military use – just that segment that makes firearms for civilians.

However that same drug industry is involved pushing the drugging of a large number of young kids with drugs that are known to lead to violent ideation and other issues that could lead to violence.

See:

Guns And Drugs
http://free2beinamerica2.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/guns-and-drugs/

As to how the NRA is financed, where is your evidence other than repeating hateful prejudice? I have been an NRA member for a long time and I strongly suspect the NRA is largely financed by its members, their dues and donations to a good cause. But I am not an accountant and haven’t audited their books lately. Have you?

Members, that is also where the awesome political power of the NRA comes from – its members and a large number of other non-members who share similar beliefs about America and the right to keep and bear arms. Those voters are quite capable of ending the political careers of some politicians on the wrong side, and we make no apologies for that. It is called democracy.

“name calling is a lot easier and rewarding than intelligent discourse, ”

And what have you done along the lines of “intelligent discourse” other than repeating left wing hateful prejudice that paints a whole class of people as nothing but money grubbing self interested idiots who care for no one else?

Or drawing cartoons which are just prejudice in pictures.

lwk

rogerhollander - April 29, 2014

LWK,

First of all, the cartoon was critical of the arms industry and was not attacking any particular individual. Putting words in the mouths of individuals in a cartoon is a satirical technique not to be taken literally, which is what you have done to be able to accuse me of slandering nice people. I point out nice, kind, loving individuals are capable through their economic enterprises to cause widespread misery, which is what I accuse the arms industry of doing.
I did not say the arms industry is interested “only” in profit, but because of all the harm that is done with firearms, they are obviously more interested in their business profit than human life.
The argument about a competitive business having the right to maximize profit doesn’t hold water. I could stand in front of my local high school selling drugs and get rich overnight. But it would be both illegal and immoral. I allege that the massive manufacturing and distributing of the kinds of fire arms that have killed so many innocent people recently is immoral and should be illegal.
As for NRA funding, here are only three of many sources that document the reality.
http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-industry-funds-nra-2013-1
http://bluevirginia.us/diary/8333/who-funds-the-nra
http://financesonline.com/the-nra-is-lobbying-and-the-gun-companies-are-paying-the-bills/
Here are stats on the US import/export figures of US small arms and ammo
http://workshop.chromeexperiments.com/projects/armsglobe/
I want to finish by saying that although you accuse my motivations of being prejudiced and hateful (which they are not), I do not do the same for you. I respect that you have an opinion to which I happen to disagree. Like you, I sometimes react emotionally to opinion that offend me, so I can understand your personal attack on me. What I try to do when this occurs, is analyze why I am so offended and try to put that into arguments rather than lashing out.
I have enjoyed our dialogue, and I hope you have found something in what I say beyond wanting to discredit me personally.

Roger

5. lwk2431 - April 30, 2014

“As for NRA funding, here are only three of many sources that document the reality.”

Actually most of those are just opinion without real numbers.

You might check this out for 2010.

Who Does the NRA Really Speak For?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/does-nra-really-speak-133000467.html

According to that the NRA had $228 million in revenue in 2010. Members dues were $106 million. There article mentions that the Violence Policy Center _estimated_ (or pulled out of their ass) that they think the NRA received $38.9 million from the firearms industry. If true that represents maybe 17% of their revenue. Clearly a lot came from the small contributors.

To say that the NRA is just an industry front is I think not very accurate. Just an attempt to invalidate many of the fine people it represents.

The fact is the NRA speaks for a lot of people, groups, and interests. But without the loyal support of its members it would be nothing, and no politician would be afraid of it. Also as I pointed out before, if you want to look for _real_ financial power in Congress look to the drug industry. Or look at the Wall Street firms. Compared to them in terms of $$$ the NRA is piddling. The NRA’s power comes from real people, not gun manufacturers.

lwk


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